Ukrainian Revolution


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Ukrainian Revolution
#1
Has anyone been paying attention to the recent revolution in Ukraine?

Looks like there could be a problem brewing in Crimea: West warns Russia amid rising tensions in Crimea

Quote:Western nations have called on Russia to ease tensions in Ukraine's Crimea region after armed men seized the local parliament and raised the Russian flag.

Russia also scrambled fighter jets along its borders as part of military exercises it announced a day earlier.
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#2
Sounds like the country might split. Happened with Czechoslovakia after all.
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#3
This can get real bad real fast. We should tread very carefully. Putin does not respect Obama that much. He certainly does not fear him. Even if that were not so, Russia has legitimate interests in the stability of Ukraine, Crimea in particular.
If you do not hope, you will not find what is beyond your hopes. ~ St. Clement of Alexandra
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#4
I really hope this gets diffused before it before it blows up into World War 3.

(02-28-2014, 02:50 PM)jedimaster4334 Wrote: Sounds like the country might split. Happened with Czechoslovakia after all.

I doubt it. Any comparison to the Czech/Slovakia "velvet divorce" doesn't work since "Czechoslovakia" was an artificial construct from the rubble of the Austro-Hungarian Empire after WW1. They actually had separate national identities to build on. In Ukraine, you have the same ethnic group that speaks a different first language.
Ich tue, was ich tun will
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#5
I wonder what options are available? Would economic sanctions work? I hope nothing that involves the military.
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#6
With each passing day this sounds more and more like a bad Tom Clancy novel. I think it's safe to say Russia will never let Crimea go short of military action... and I doubt anyone has the stomach for that.
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#7
Putin is delusional and that makes him dangerous. Something needs to be done, but what can you do with a bunch of delusional maniacs in control of nukes and a massive ego? I think we need the entire world to stand up and say enough is enough and that means countries like China stepping up and saying something against Russia's actions.

Why does Russia need a naval port in Crimea anyway? Russia has hundreds of miles of shoreline on the Black Sea, including Sochi. If they need a naval port, why can't they build one on their coastline?
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#8
(03-03-2014, 04:56 PM)jedimaster4334 Wrote: Putin is delusional and that makes him dangerous. Something needs to be done, but what can you do with a bunch of delusional maniacs in control of nukes and a massive ego? I think we need the entire world to stand up and say enough is enough and that means countries like China stepping up and saying something against Russia's actions.

Why does Russia need a naval port in Crimea anyway? Russia has hundreds of miles of shoreline on the Black Sea, including Sochi. If they need a naval port, why can't they build one on their coastline?

The port in Crimea is the only major warm water port they have. Their other ports ice over in winter which inhibits free naval and shipping movements year round. Unless or until they find a new spot to either build or enlarge a small preexisting warm water port in the Black Sea - the one in Crimea is all they've got.

Plus there is a amount of pride. Going back to Peter the Great, Russia has been obsessed with acquiring and maintaining warm water ports and has particularly been obsessed with Crimea and Sevastopol.
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#9
(03-03-2014, 04:56 PM)jedimaster4334 Wrote: Putin is delusional and that makes him dangerous. Something needs to be done, but what can you do with a bunch of delusional maniacs in control of nukes and a massive ego? I think we need the entire world to stand up and say enough is enough and that means countries like China stepping up and saying something against Russia's actions.

The reaction is stronger than when Putin invaded Georgia; that was an election year for us and much of the US and the world were to be busy watching the banking collapse and the 2008 presidential race to pay much attention to Georgia.

It would be great if China would join in the condemnation but unless they can see a direct self-interest they won't.

As to the maniacs with nukes... I don't think Russia is prepared to use their nukes. IF the worst were to happen and the West (US and/or NATO) engaged with Russia in real live fire war, I just can't see either side shooting off nukes, especially Russia. The US has gotten too far ahead of Russia in nuclear weapons and deploying those weapons. It's a situation in which there's everything to lose and nothing to gain.
If you do not hope, you will not find what is beyond your hopes. ~ St. Clement of Alexandra
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#10
(03-05-2014, 02:51 PM)Qui-Gon Jinn Wrote:
(03-03-2014, 04:56 PM)jedimaster4334 Wrote: Putin is delusional and that makes him dangerous. Something needs to be done, but what can you do with a bunch of delusional maniacs in control of nukes and a massive ego? I think we need the entire world to stand up and say enough is enough and that means countries like China stepping up and saying something against Russia's actions.

The reaction is stronger than when Putin invaded Georgia; that was an election year for us and much of the US and the world were to be busy watching the banking collapse and the 2008 presidential race to pay much attention to Georgia.

I'd also add that the facts on the ground weren't so clear. Maybe it's was because Georgia is isolated or the fact that the Georgian government seemed to take the first actual act, but it wasn't as clear an invasion as this is.

(03-05-2014, 02:51 PM)Qui-Gon Jinn Wrote: As to the maniacs with nukes... I don't think Russia is prepared to use their nukes. IF the worst were to happen and the West (US and/or NATO) engaged with Russia in real live fire war, I just can't see either side shooting off nukes, especially Russia. The US has gotten too far ahead of Russia in nuclear weapons and deploying those weapons. It's a situation in which there's everything to lose and nothing to gain.

As somebody who lives about 12 hours from Ukraine, I hope you're right in this regard.
Ich tue, was ich tun will
I do what I want to do
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